Retailers Call for Amazon Tax

J - Posted on March 27, 2011
Think back to a time... Say after WWII, all the GI's coming home from Europe or the Pacific. Major consumer choices were few and far between. Along come the 80's and a little 'ol company from Arkansas is expanding rapidly with products that are "MADE IN THE USA" and are VALUE DRIVEN... How long did that last? (Sam Walton rolling in his grave). Now a majority of the stuff they sell is made overseas because of the USA's need to import vs. exporting.
The internet is just one more evolution in retail and every single brick and mortar store has to have an online presence or be passed over. Expecting consumers in our fickle society to understand the long and vast nuances of interstate or global commerce is impossible. Taxing online sales is like asking the town drunk to keep an eye on the bar while we run out for a sandwich... the town drunk in this case is most politicians who are "just trying to help their own constituents" with good jobs and bringing revenue back home. Myself having been in retail for the past sixteen years I've worked for quite a few of the major players and shrinking margins are getting more and more brutal. LEVEL the playing field for everyone involved! TAX ONLINE SALES. It is the right thing to do, for everyone involved... yes even you sitting in your living room on your laptop, ordering that new electronic device you just went to the local brick and mortar store, chewed the salesman's ear for about 45 minutes about, only to leave and come home to order, not realizing that person is wondering how they are going to feed their family tonight!

mike - Posted on March 21, 2011
It's about time. I have written to every federal and state official that is in my constituency and this falls on deaf ears. Maybe when the big guns come out we can see some action. Hopefully the tax will be high enough (try 6% split between the 2 states affected) to dissuade some buyers from purchasing on line to save the tax (which is illegal anyway). Now lets get going on reducing the fees imposed on us by accepting credit cards, my #2 expense in running my business. There should be a flat rate per transaction plus a maximum fee per charge, say $30.00. 2% of a $50,000.00 sale really hurts!!

DC Martin - Posted on March 19, 2011
In a economic system such as the US of A's...We should NOT impede the trade between the states with an 'internet tax'. The federal regulators of the current administration are currently doing enough of that. We as businesses need to be able to market our products to all the markets available inside our own borders. The internet should not be used to fill the coffers of those states who cannot manage their own internal taxes.
I as a wholesaler and distributor should not be burdened with the additional red tape of any other state than the one my products are warehoused for distribution from.
but As a retailer, I am to collect sales or use taxes for those states other than the one I am located in
.
The mass marketers such as best buys, walmart, target etc.. would love to do this, as it would impede their competition and drive them out of business with unnecessary bookkeeping and regulations. For when allowed, more states will see this as a way to gain more revenue from other businesses from other states than their own. Be it a 1% or 4% or any %. This no more than holding businesses hostage through blackmail from a domestic market that has always been available to all US Businesses.

This is clearly another attempt to infringe upon free trade between the states. I for one am in support of those business that clearly define their internet presence and do not allow specific states to 'blackmail' them out of those markets. one instance I recently found, was a customer of mine who received an email reply that stated that they could no longer supply a buyer in one of these specific states due to additional taxation from the buyers state. Should they have questions as to why, they should contact their states department of revenue. This seller also went on to thank his customer for their past business and that should the situation improve they would welcome them back.

Blackmail is the ugly word, it's not politically correct. But it is the truth. Besides the states, this will allow some white house czar to add their own version to an already overtaxed system.

Steve - Posted on March 18, 2011
Under the current federal tax laws, a business has to have a "nexus" - some type of brick-and-mortar presence (retail store, distribution center, etc.) within a given state - in order to be forced to collect sales tax for shipments to customers within that state.

Although almost every state (even Texas, which has no state income tax) has a law on the books requiring consumers to declare out-of-state (online) purchases and pay the state an amount equal to the tax rate had the item been purchased locally (state, county and city taxes). Needless to say, since state revenue offices do not have the budget or access to purchase records to enforce this, it's essentially a toothless, ignored law.

Amazon has thrown its weight around on this. When the State of Texas demanded sales taxes from Amazon based on the fact they had a distribution center near Fort Worth, they promptly closed the center and out 300 people out of work. Since there are still several states without a sales tax, it would be easy for Amazon to locate all of its "nexuses" in such states.

Having worked in retail management for over a decade, I cannot count the number of customers asking me to "price match" the sales tax savings from Amazon, NewEgg, etc.

The ONLY viable way to fix this would be for the Internal Revenue Service to impose a flat-rate VAT (Value Added Tax, similar to those in Canada and Europe) on ALL Internet orders (including eBay, where billions of dollars of tax-free new products are sold annually). At the end of each quarter, online merchants (or, in the case of eBay, having the VAT added to the selling price and collected by eBay) must report gross sales revenues by state to the IRS along with payment of VAT tax collected. They revenue would then be distributed to the states. If this flat tax were set at an average of all state sales tax rates (say, 5%), it might level the playing field.

Robert Moldaner - Posted on March 18, 2011
Its about time! For all you people that buy online to avoid sales tax: You don't know how many times we get people in our family run brick and mortar camera store who clearly state, they just want to handle and get the feel of the item before they buy. What is that? Am I supposed to be a showroom for Amazon? I don't think so. Or would you rather I charge you $25 for each camera I take out the case and show you.

As someone mentioned earlier, there's no free lunch. For instance, there's no one left in New Orleans except us that sells film and photo paper. In fact, there's only 3 stores left in town. But, when we stop carrying it, everyone's going to wonder why they can't get photo paper any more. In the end, its a business. And if you don't support the local guys (not talking Best Buy, etc), we won't be here when you really do need us. Think about it.

Regarding Mike C.: You're not footing the bill for misappropriation of state funding. Where the heck do you think the money comes from to fix roads, maintain street lights, police and public transportation? SALES TAXES, fool. And when you buy online, you not only undercut your own safety, security and quality of life, you put you neighbor's out of work. This means they have to draw unemployment, or welfare, etc, which draws more of YOUR precious dollars.

Mike C - Posted on March 18, 2011
I agree with Alan's post below. Consumers are sick and tired of footing the bill for all the misappropriation of state funding. Especially in IL!! Walmart is not innocent in the way they treat their employees, either. No benefits, work only 29 hours so they don't have to offer benefits, etc. Also-customer service from these box stores, even online, is horrendous. The worst experience I ever had buying on the web was from walmart. They entered my address wrong and couldn't change it in their system after I received the receipt to review. They told me to contact UPS. The mom and pop Internet stores bust their butt to make a sales, they have a built-in review process with Amazon to keep them accountable, etc. The government needs to leave the Internet alone!

pete - Posted on March 18, 2011
First I hate taxes of any kind. The fact remains a consumer is penalized 5-8% for buying the exact same thing they can buy on the net at a local brick and morter store. Plain and simple internet retailers need to collect local sales tax.
Here's the irony. People buy on the net avoiding paying sales tax. The customer has screwed the government out of their tax. But, as the saying goes, there's no such thing as a free lunch. Because the local and state governments don't have any money they raise taxes of all kinds. Property taxes, users fees, etc. pop up up like crazy...and people wonder why the local and state governments are broke. People bitch and moan about service cuts, but guess what each person that avoids sales tax has caused some of the pain. Ultimately everyone pays.
Face it people are only thinking about today and not thinking long term when they buy on the net. The net has destroyed millions of jobs (think no more CC, Tweeter, Bernies, Ultimate, etc.). Those chains had their issues but selling goods at huge discounts, sometimes below cost, is not a recipe for staying in business. Some of those people are now out of work collecting unemployment (taxes pay that benefit as well).
Bottom line: when local services, social services, and long terms benefits are cut please don't blame the Dem's or Repub's, or Cheney/Bush, or Barney Frank or Obama. Take a long look in the mirror...by avoiding paying sales tax for short term savings, how does it feel to put your neighbor out of work?

J - Posted on March 27, 2011
Think back to a time... Say after WWII, all the GI's coming home from Europe or the Pacific. Major consumer choices were few and far between. Along come the 80's and a little 'ol company from Arkansas is expanding rapidly with products that are "MADE IN THE USA" and are VALUE DRIVEN... How long did that last? (Sam Walton rolling in his grave). Now a majority of the stuff they sell is made overseas because of the USA's need to import vs. exporting.
The internet is just one more evolution in retail and every single brick and mortar store has to have an online presence or be passed over. Expecting consumers in our fickle society to understand the long and vast nuances of interstate or global commerce is impossible. Taxing online sales is like asking the town drunk to keep an eye on the bar while we run out for a sandwich... the town drunk in this case is most politicians who are "just trying to help their own constituents" with good jobs and bringing revenue back home. Myself having been in retail for the past sixteen years I've worked for quite a few of the major players and shrinking margins are getting more and more brutal. LEVEL the playing field for everyone involved! TAX ONLINE SALES. It is the right thing to do, for everyone involved... yes even you sitting in your living room on your laptop, ordering that new electronic device you just went to the local brick and mortar store, chewed the salesman's ear for about 45 minutes about, only to leave and come home to order, not realizing that person is wondering how they are going to feed their family tonight!

mike - Posted on March 21, 2011
It's about time. I have written to every federal and state official that is in my constituency and this falls on deaf ears. Maybe when the big guns come out we can see some action. Hopefully the tax will be high enough (try 6% split between the 2 states affected) to dissuade some buyers from purchasing on line to save the tax (which is illegal anyway). Now lets get going on reducing the fees imposed on us by accepting credit cards, my #2 expense in running my business. There should be a flat rate per transaction plus a maximum fee per charge, say $30.00. 2% of a $50,000.00 sale really hurts!!

DC Martin - Posted on March 19, 2011
In a economic system such as the US of A's...We should NOT impede the trade between the states with an 'internet tax'. The federal regulators of the current administration are currently doing enough of that. We as businesses need to be able to market our products to all the markets available inside our own borders. The internet should not be used to fill the coffers of those states who cannot manage their own internal taxes.
I as a wholesaler and distributor should not be burdened with the additional red tape of any other state than the one my products are warehoused for distribution from.
but As a retailer, I am to collect sales or use taxes for those states other than the one I am located in
.
The mass marketers such as best buys, walmart, target etc.. would love to do this, as it would impede their competition and drive them out of business with unnecessary bookkeeping and regulations. For when allowed, more states will see this as a way to gain more revenue from other businesses from other states than their own. Be it a 1% or 4% or any %. This no more than holding businesses hostage through blackmail from a domestic market that has always been available to all US Businesses.

This is clearly another attempt to infringe upon free trade between the states. I for one am in support of those business that clearly define their internet presence and do not allow specific states to 'blackmail' them out of those markets. one instance I recently found, was a customer of mine who received an email reply that stated that they could no longer supply a buyer in one of these specific states due to additional taxation from the buyers state. Should they have questions as to why, they should contact their states department of revenue. This seller also went on to thank his customer for their past business and that should the situation improve they would welcome them back.

Blackmail is the ugly word, it's not politically correct. But it is the truth. Besides the states, this will allow some white house czar to add their own version to an already overtaxed system.

Steve - Posted on March 18, 2011
Under the current federal tax laws, a business has to have a "nexus" - some type of brick-and-mortar presence (retail store, distribution center, etc.) within a given state - in order to be forced to collect sales tax for shipments to customers within that state.

Although almost every state (even Texas, which has no state income tax) has a law on the books requiring consumers to declare out-of-state (online) purchases and pay the state an amount equal to the tax rate had the item been purchased locally (state, county and city taxes). Needless to say, since state revenue offices do not have the budget or access to purchase records to enforce this, it's essentially a toothless, ignored law.

Amazon has thrown its weight around on this. When the State of Texas demanded sales taxes from Amazon based on the fact they had a distribution center near Fort Worth, they promptly closed the center and out 300 people out of work. Since there are still several states without a sales tax, it would be easy for Amazon to locate all of its "nexuses" in such states.

Having worked in retail management for over a decade, I cannot count the number of customers asking me to "price match" the sales tax savings from Amazon, NewEgg, etc.

The ONLY viable way to fix this would be for the Internal Revenue Service to impose a flat-rate VAT (Value Added Tax, similar to those in Canada and Europe) on ALL Internet orders (including eBay, where billions of dollars of tax-free new products are sold annually). At the end of each quarter, online merchants (or, in the case of eBay, having the VAT added to the selling price and collected by eBay) must report gross sales revenues by state to the IRS along with payment of VAT tax collected. They revenue would then be distributed to the states. If this flat tax were set at an average of all state sales tax rates (say, 5%), it might level the playing field.

Robert Moldaner - Posted on March 18, 2011
Its about time! For all you people that buy online to avoid sales tax: You don't know how many times we get people in our family run brick and mortar camera store who clearly state, they just want to handle and get the feel of the item before they buy. What is that? Am I supposed to be a showroom for Amazon? I don't think so. Or would you rather I charge you $25 for each camera I take out the case and show you.

As someone mentioned earlier, there's no free lunch. For instance, there's no one left in New Orleans except us that sells film and photo paper. In fact, there's only 3 stores left in town. But, when we stop carrying it, everyone's going to wonder why they can't get photo paper any more. In the end, its a business. And if you don't support the local guys (not talking Best Buy, etc), we won't be here when you really do need us. Think about it.

Regarding Mike C.: You're not footing the bill for misappropriation of state funding. Where the heck do you think the money comes from to fix roads, maintain street lights, police and public transportation? SALES TAXES, fool. And when you buy online, you not only undercut your own safety, security and quality of life, you put you neighbor's out of work. This means they have to draw unemployment, or welfare, etc, which draws more of YOUR precious dollars.

Mike C - Posted on March 18, 2011
I agree with Alan's post below. Consumers are sick and tired of footing the bill for all the misappropriation of state funding. Especially in IL!! Walmart is not innocent in the way they treat their employees, either. No benefits, work only 29 hours so they don't have to offer benefits, etc. Also-customer service from these box stores, even online, is horrendous. The worst experience I ever had buying on the web was from walmart. They entered my address wrong and couldn't change it in their system after I received the receipt to review. They told me to contact UPS. The mom and pop Internet stores bust their butt to make a sales, they have a built-in review process with Amazon to keep them accountable, etc. The government needs to leave the Internet alone!

pete - Posted on March 18, 2011
First I hate taxes of any kind. The fact remains a consumer is penalized 5-8% for buying the exact same thing they can buy on the net at a local brick and morter store. Plain and simple internet retailers need to collect local sales tax.
Here's the irony. People buy on the net avoiding paying sales tax. The customer has screwed the government out of their tax. But, as the saying goes, there's no such thing as a free lunch. Because the local and state governments don't have any money they raise taxes of all kinds. Property taxes, users fees, etc. pop up up like crazy...and people wonder why the local and state governments are broke. People bitch and moan about service cuts, but guess what each person that avoids sales tax has caused some of the pain. Ultimately everyone pays.
Face it people are only thinking about today and not thinking long term when they buy on the net. The net has destroyed millions of jobs (think no more CC, Tweeter, Bernies, Ultimate, etc.). Those chains had their issues but selling goods at huge discounts, sometimes below cost, is not a recipe for staying in business. Some of those people are now out of work collecting unemployment (taxes pay that benefit as well).
Bottom line: when local services, social services, and long terms benefits are cut please don't blame the Dem's or Repub's, or Cheney/Bush, or Barney Frank or Obama. Take a long look in the mirror...by avoiding paying sales tax for short term savings, how does it feel to put your neighbor out of work?